Wow - everyone! I haven't been in the Message Boards in almost a year, after having been blasted by some for my "natural new-age ways". How refreshing to find this post! As a matter of fact, I had fecals done a couple of weeks ago and one of my horses had 200 eggs/gram. The vet recommended a regular dewormer. I knew that waiting until the full moon supposedly gets more of the worm load because they detach at that time (even the Farmer's Almanac says so!), so I put both horses on DE about a week ago, and then upped it according to the directions for worming, 2 days before, on and 2 days following a full moon. Well, last night was the full moon and I had my new horse's fecal count done yesterday - it had dropped to 40 eggs per gram in the last two weeks just on DE! Horsemen's Lab only recommends using a chemical dewormer if the count is over 200 eggs/gm. www.horsemenslab.com. They also have kits you can use if you don't want to go in to a vet for the fecal count. I'm sold on the DE, have been taking it myself and giving it to my dog who lives on the horse poop. Love it. Also have opted not to do vaccinations this year since I am not traveling. Plan to run titers on both horses soon. Love the garlic, too! P.S. Aside from the heat in the hoof and lameness, you can also keep an eye on the digital pulse as an indicator of founder. My 14 yr old, Nash, was severely foundered at 3 when I rescued him, but came through it. If you are concerned about it at all, try APF by Auburn Labs. Nash is on pasture most of the time, and I swear by the stuff. If he happens to be in a place in early spring or late fall when the grasses are extra rich, I add Command IR. (Not to mention the probiotics, prebotiocs, biotin, Curcuvet (curcumin anti-inflammatory & liver support), and Connectin Joint Supplement for circulation. In fact, if you don't try anything else, and you really think they are stocked up in the hinds, try MSM and Curcuvet. Sorry this was so long - y'all are probably wishing I hadn't come back! Thanks everyone else for all of your awesome suggestions, too!

Enjoyed the suggestions and have been doing so since. My horses are now loving the garlic, probiotics and raw pumpkinseeds, etc Colics seem to be a thing of the past, there are other good aspects.

Jess... I've used DE for a few yrs now. They do good with it, and no side effects. I get it at a local feed store and make sure it is "Food Grade". There is a "non food grade" out there, so read the label. DO NOT buy it where they sell swimming pool supplies. Too easy to get the wrong stuff. Just a thought. *good thread here...thanks for the garlic powder tip*

Jess... with your latest posting I had another thot... Maybe the dewormer is causing a toxic build up in, or inflamation in the kidneys or liver. Either or both of those issues could cause painful back end issues. I like your idea of changing the way you deworm and try adding probiotics to their diet on a regular basis. Also if you vaccinate (a whole other subject) don't do it at deworming time. It's too much stress on their immune systems. There are homeopathic and herbal remedies that help the liver and kidneys process toxins easier and can be used after deworming or vaccinations. Let us know what you find out..... even if it's not till next yr when you can make the changes, we'd all like to learn from your experiences. But you might start by supporting their systems now with probiotics etc so they will be at their best. Just my two cents.... :)

Thank you, everyone, for your input. I will definitely switch wormers. I know it isn't founder causing the problem. The horses are standing on their front feet, and they have both been checked by a vet and a farrier for founder. I can tell by their movement, the problem is in their back or hind quarters somewhere. The younger one keeps leaning forward on her front legs and stretching her back. The older one just moves slower than normal, but seems to drag in back, and when she turns, she pivots on the front hooves.

Jessakid, you wrote here: //Could this be tied to ivermectin? It does seem to occur within a week or so of their spring worming.// In one to three weeks a drug reaction in humans or animals can cause serious harm, shortterm or longterm. I have learned to second and third guess everything given. Thank god for GOOGLE. I can take every ingredient and dissect it, find out exactly what it is and all the side effects within minutes. I have in later years happily used "Food Quality diamataceous Earth " with great success instead of a chemical wormer. I include organic garlic powder ( not garlic salt). Even with a very picky horse ( or dog) the garlic  powder became very welcome very fast. Funny was, when I did the feeding,  I would crave garlic myself. Good for me as well, we all know it's many health benefits. I would start with half a teaspoon to one teaspoon within a week and supplement one teaspoon  2 x a daily.  Organic garlic powder can be bought in bulk, it keeps great and entire barns would share in. Aside the immune building qualities, it also repels flys, mosquitos and parasites.  Combined with a high quality probiotic powder given daily a preventative inexpensive medicine!  Eventually the horses smell like garlic, so funny! But since they all smell like garlic.... Lol.  I wish I would have discovered this years before and never used the toxic chemicals. SPOILER ALERT: Drug giants want to discredit any natural and inexpensive treatment,  they don't profit from. Trust your own instincts. Just found out from a lady friend who did give all those wormers and shots regularly that her 6 year old champion mares liver shut down. The poor mare was in so much pain. The costly and longterm otopsy did reveal the drug wormers were at fault. Maybe a isolated incident, then again, how many people have extensive costly otopsys preformed.  And where are those studies published? With any drugs and inoculations I would proceed with upmost caution. Do a stool sample first, a drug shall never be given as a preventative measure. Drugs compromise the immune system to much and invites a host of may other deaseases .  After every  type of worming,  it is of upmost importance to up the probiotics for two weeks and give electrolytes. I prefer the tube electrolyte instead of the powder, to insure the horses ingest it. The natural bacteria is destroyed during worming and the electrolytes are upset.    Btw I also liked giving wormwood extract in correct doses after traveling with horses and shared spaces. Also raw pumpkinseeds and dates and honey for snacks,  ( start with small portions) parasites don't want to stick around when they are consumed.  I supplement probiotics daily, not just to prevent colics, but also to keep the immune system stong and the entire gut and intestinal household healthy. The parisites won"t build a resistance to any of the above listed. They can"t stand living in a healthy enviroment. I could write much more about this and have other tips, let me know if you need more help. I'm so glad the other ladies and gents here have also discovered natural remedies. If horses could talk to everybody....

P.s. I've given over some of my land to bee keepers. They approached me due to the fact that I am a natural rancher and as organic as I can get. My ranch is getting all the bees it needs. I'm gifted the most delicious honey, very fresh and the horses get it as a treat instead of sugar. I don't kill wasp anymore either, just don't want them in the barns. Wasp eat FIREANTS! Fireants can kill a horse. Read up about why we need bees.

I used diamataceous earth, never any type of ivermectin or chemical product. My horses go from trail to show and there health and attitude is important. A drugged horse can misbehave badly. I also like wormwood for new horses I use wild crafted herbs, I don't allow any fertilizers or chemicals on my entire ranch. There are so many books now available on organic ranching, farming etc etc. it has been done for 1000 of years without toxins!!! Q: What are Wild-Crafted Herbs? A: Wild-crafted herbs are herbs, collected in their wild habitat, while leaving enough plant material so as not to compromise the abundance of the mother plant.ild crafted herbs. The natural ranching lifestyle will save you big $$$. I also won't give aging horses any more shots. Im very conservative and selective with the shots given. Hope this helps!

My $0.02 on the topic of worming... There is an herbal wormer called wormwood...that is suitable for humans and equines...but, can be dangerous if overused and/or not used properly. Here's a link to a website that I trusted after all me research. I have heard good things about using wormwood, but you have to be diligent in it's dosages...and, in my humble opinion, I think it's expensive. http://www.fiascofarm.com/herbs/wormer.htm NOTE: I have not used this product. I am just offering the information as an alternative to the other suggestions above. AND, in my realm of riding friends, none of us worm our horses any more and selectively use the fecal tests to determine what may be needed.

Lots of brands listed when you do a search for DIATOMACEOUS EARTH. There have been many discussions, over the years, about the efficacy, or lack thereof, of using diatomaceous earth over chemical dewormers. You can find some of those discussions at: http://www.horseadvice.com/cgi-bin/htsearch