Vicky, good you weighed in on this topic and it sure has been a good discussion. Questions like this helps a lot of horse owners and its fun to read all the different thoughts. Some of us older ones got started so long ago we didn't have the benefit of vidoes, tv and in some cases there were no books available. We broke and rode horses by trial and error and the only outside help came from others around us in the same situation. Back then my world consisted of about a 100 mile radius. We hand made most the head gear our horses wore and used the same bits from start to finish and bare back was the way of it. I saw some harsh methods used by some but for the most part we were natural horseman and didn't know that's what it was called. Now a days we have tie downs and some other training aids but never use them. The only reason they hang on the tack wall is because someone gave them to me or I was guilty of adding something I saw others use. I tend to stay with simple equipment that stays out of the horse' mouth. Back aways, there was mention of a trainer telling some one to get a tie down and I would suggest that person ask for specific reasons. I agree with Vicky that most go to that stuff because it is easier and because others use it. Lots of equipment is used simply because it looks good. I hope to see more questions on equipment and more good replys.

Hi Kathy! Here's my 2-cents worth: My ex used tie-down's on his team roping horses for two reasons. ONE - it took too much time to put a proper head-set (position the head is held in, not a bridle) on a prospect, when a tie-down solved the problem of nosing out, and TWO - the tie-down helped keep the horse's neck stiff, which was is important when they face the steer. Roping horses are ALWAYS stiff with very little bending. They will flex at the pole nicely and tuck their chin in as long as the tie-down is on, but will root out quickly when it is off. --And when one roper does it that way and it works, others will do the same! Calf ropers do it for the same reason. As for barrel racers, many of them fall into the same mold.... putting on a proper headset (again, not a bridle) takes too much time, so they opt for a tie-down or war bonnet, and usually go to stronger bits for more control, instead of remembering that "less is usually better". Vicky

Hi Spurs, Not sure of your question. Isn't a bit a bit? Why is your trainer recommending a tie down all the time, what is your horse doing? A well fitted saddle for both rider AND horse is an important consideration no doubt. Kathy

Well my teacher told me just the other day I need to use a tie down all the time and get a smaller saddle to keep me in position on my quarter horse now I am really confused. Isn't a bit a bit or bridle?

He would certainly be talking about an aged (6 or above) horse working in a solid mouth piece with a "cricket" no broken mouth piece ridden with a romal as in the Vaquero Tradition. The horse having graduated from a Bosal or Snaffle Bit as a 2,3,4 or 5 year old riden two handed with split or macate reins. see- http://www.modernvaquero.com/Tools_of_the_Trade.html

Randy are you talking bridle horses as in...vaquero style, Martin Black type? Harry Whitney is the closest person I know (key word I as in me myself)that I can say makes a true bridle horse. His personal horse is amazing to watch. JB as far as WP horses, don't even want to go there. Too sad beyond words what has taken place in that industry. But like with any discipline, the ego, money machine and all that certainly can get in the way of what is good for the horse. Some of the nicest trained horses never make to the arena or the circuit, they just do a job or bring joy to an owner. Thanks everyone for their input. No flaming here! Kathy Oh and while I am here talking about this: Harry Whitney will be in East TN for 5-6 weeks beginning May 17th. Info here:http://www.mendinfencesfarm.com/page6/page6.html The first 5 weeks are full, but they are taking deposits for the 6th week.

shygal--you covered that well--kind of where i was trying to get to in my answer. i have seen the bike chain also--more common back then. but saw it recently---"gonna put a real stop on this horse" was the response i got to my comment that maybe a little driving or more whoa training from the ground might serve well (i have a nasty habit of asserting my opinion). i think in general the shift from the heavy mechanical devices has happened and continues to get better for the horse. gifted----if you mean "bridle horse" in the way i understand the label----it is pure beauty to see one carry a wellbalanced ornate curb and work almost off of his rider's thoughts with such a light touch. we used to watch a guy in so. calif. train in the "true" (IMO) way with the snaffle, jicama and fancy curb and alot of time up and down the mountains. it looked like he could have rode them with a thread on the shanks when he was near finishing them. kindred--i was pretty sure you were talking roping; and yes i have seen the short ties on barrel horses too. as pointed out--can be dangerous. but--i sat recently and watched a WP horse warm up with "draw reins" so snug his head was down between his ankles and he was being ask for a lope!!!!!!!! tail wringing he looked like a keg of dynamite fixing to blow. that could have been interesting. the WP horse right behind him was traveling happy and you could have laid a level from croup to poll. nothing extra on his head but a set of light hands. go figure. every discipline or competition style has it's tools and for the most part (here goes that "opinion" of mine) they are as gentle or harsh as the hands they are in.

Okay, I am sure I am going to get blown right out of this site by someone coming back and posting something negative in regards to what I am going to say. I am going to talk strictly about the calf roping horse in the first paragraph so don't take what I am saying and run with it thinking its about other events. Back in my Dad's time he was one of the top calf ropers in what they called the NRA association and he used a tie down for training purposes, there were times he used a bicycle chain wrapped with electrical tape (kinda severe in my mind) but they used them to get a horse they were having problems with not wanting to pay attention when they asked them to stop. They are also used as a balance for the calf roping horse as both the horse and calf are going so fast that when they rope the calf and ask the horse to stop with the calf still running hard that when they hit the end of the slack in the rope that the roper pitches it will jerk the horse forward with them, the tie down gives the horse leverage to balance on so this doesn't happen, which allows the horse to stop hard and stop the calf so the roper can get off and tie the calf in a shorter amount of time. I hope this all makes sense. I also barrel race but have never used a tie down on my barrel horse, haven't found a reason to yet but I'm not knocking the barrel racers that do use one as I'm sure they have their reasons. shygal

I have had to chuckle at times reading through these posts.... many memories came to light....At Ray Hunt Clinic one time (back in the days before they called them clinics).... A husband and wife rode into the arena....had their horses tied down with some new "nuclear contraption" tie down.....Ray looked up and sent them home and was not very nice about it..... I think he figured " they were too far gone to help"..... When I saw the title to this post I thought ...awww..... finally someone is talking "Bridle Horses"... It was not to be.....not many people making a bridle horse today and less that know what they are....we are blessed in this area to have many....it is a sight to see one work....just takes your breath away at times...

Well I was talking about the roping horses, but I saw the same thing in the barrel horses. In watching some horses traveling at a walk while being led from the barn area I first noticed the shortness of the tie downs because they inhibited the natural up and down bob of the horse's head. Granted the horse's head was up because it was real looky, but my thought was these tie downs were too tight. Long time ago I heard a story about a state 4-H competition where a horse tripped on the run from the 3rd barrel and the trainer watching said the tie down was so short it limited the horse's ability to recover and there was a serious injury to the rider. I did think at the rodeo that the equipment was perhaps in lieu of sound training. (I am a strong believer of less is more and ya get there faster going slow....) BUT, I was not familiar with the discipline and I thought maybe since so many wore this special noseband it was for a specific reason. Next year I will be looking for those fellas who don't have them on their horses lol. I agree that there is no such thing as a stupid question. But boy I sure think ignorance IS bliss....the more I learn the more I long for the good ol days when I just got on and rode. (Nah, I like where I am now, "considering the horse".) Best wishes, Kathy