Your on the right track. However, I am not a fan of alot of backing. I back em all when I stop them to get them thinking about sitting on their ass end. However, when working a problem horse I don't use the back as much. It leads to rearing. The horse's mind has wandered and is on something else other than you. The best way to get control of your horse's mind is by controling your horse's feet. Lots of lateral movements are the best answer. Move the hips, move the shoulders, yield the ribs, stop and sidepass and then switch it up some more. When a horse can't go forward or to the side and they are trapped in a back, it can lead to resistance and rearing. Just a though. Good Luck! Tell that neighbor of yours to help out! LOL

just wanted to give ya'll an update! raymond and i haven't been able to ride very much because of my work schedule and dang daylight savings time..but here's where we stand. turns out i have an nrcha hall-of-famer for a neighbor. he's been giving me lots of advice..pretty much what ya'll have been saying but hearing it outloud has made it stick more. i took ray for a ride the other day and any time he took his attention from me and focused on something he wanted to get to (ex: home, the horse i was riding with..who i kept at at least a 1/4 mile distance all times, clinton anderson's herd of horses..he's another neighbor of mine, etc.) i turned his happy little butt around and made him back..and back..and back. then after backing i would ask him to stand still. if he could stand there without trying to cheat me and get back to the distraction we would start back with our regular ride. our ride consisted of about as much walking backwards as fowards but we did come back home without much fuss and he only got really silly once. i have to say i felt like i was in control at all times. next time we'll try disengaging the hindquarters and other little exercises. and..a little background..just found out today that the lady i bought my horse from was a very non-aggressive rider. turns out she pretty much let this horse get away with everything because she was too scared to be dominant. so..now we know where he got his habit from. anyway..i do love a challenge so i'm kind of glad my horse has some quirk i can work on. we've been spending more one-on-one time in the stall and in the little turnout and i can really see him starting to look to me instead of staring off into the distance..which is pretty cool because he wasn't a very affectionate horse when i got him. thanks for the advice! i really do appreciate it! we have our first show together in february so wish us luck!!

I should also mention that if you feel uncomfortable doing these things under saddle than you can step off and use a rope halter and 14 foot lead. Check out Clinton Anderson's lunging for respect. There is alot of good information in there that you can apply to this situation. I like to ride it out but there are options if you don't feel comfortable doing that. You can always throw a nightlatch on your saddle for a little bit of security too. :)

There is some wisdom in each of the suggestions. Actually using all of them may help get him to rethink his need for the herd. If you use the suggestins involviing working him while away from your place, be dang carefull. Your horse sounds like he is capable of dumping you and going where ever he chooses. Cloud's idea is a good one but sooner or later you will put him back with the herd and he will revert right back to wanting to hang with his buddies. I use the stuff sagebrush talks about. You would be working toward getting his attention and he is less likely to get out of hand that close to home. I know from many years of bumps and bruses the horse personalty you describe can be dangerous. So be careful what ever you do.

GREAT advice sagebrush--ties in with the other good suggestions and yes i am thankful for many things learned from ray hunt as well as the older mentors of the past.

Anytime you have a herdbound horse you need to get his attention on you and off the other horses. It's as simple as making the right thing easy and the wrong thing difficult. As you ride away from the herd of horses you will notice your horse turn his ear or eye back toward the barn horses. This is what works for me. Everytime the horse "Thinks" about going back to the (barn, buddy, trailer, etc) ride him to the object at a good clip and put his feet to work. Disengage the hindquarters, move the shoulders, circles, changes of direction. Everything should be done with a purpose and keep those feet moving. When you notice his ears, eyes, attention move "away" from the magnet, STOP riding him hard and allow him to venture away from the object. He may only walk a foot or two away and turn back. That's fine. Go right back to moving him and making the wrong thing difficult. I had a big old bay horse that wanted to get back to the trailer ASAP after working all day. I opened him up and ran him back to the trailer. Around and around we went, my legs were bumping his sides and I made that trailer a miserable place. The second his attention ventured away from the trailer I sat as quiet as could be and moved with him. Worked like a charm. I learned this technique from Brian Neubert and Ray Hunt and they most certainly know what they are talking about!

you have some really good responses with some great ideas to work with here. sometimes going out with someone on a calmer, laid back horse where you can go on ahead circling back to the "buddy" and just in general reassuring him that separation is ok making sure to work him if he becomes ansy and watch carefully for the one moment of calm so he can get his reward of "company" (espec. if you have been spending time with him becoming his new best bud as suggested). i came back from my ride today really pleased with how much more confident mine went out today without his "leader" and just with another horse from a different pasture---so he spent alot of time leading the way getting further away each time. a real confidence booster for him. he also has figured out that figure eights and back ups are boring and make the return trip alot longer than it has to be. heading for home is just about the same speed now as the first mile out. this was one buddy-sour boy 5 wks ago. coming home to some refreshers from the ground is making "home" a little less attractive. **************** "next time i think i might try getting off at the neighbors gate and leading him home...making him stop, back up, and turn around a lot. i HATE getting off of a horse when there's a problem but i don't think i can fix anything if i don't feel safe and at least on the ground i can really get onto him without him throwing me off." sometimes because of a safety factor we really can be more effective in getting our point across from the ground and as long as you choose your moment of dismount (if possible) and make the walk home a training session you have maintained control and leadership. there is never any problem with that. the very best of luck to you. stay safe.

ANY time your horse even THINKS about becoming unruly, put him to a task that he already knows. You have to give 110 percent of YOUR concentration to that task in order to get 100 percent from your horse. So you may instantly focus ONLY on making a perfectly round circle, or bending to the left, or giving the haunch or shoulder or ANYthing that demands 100 percent of his attention. When you have 100 percent of his brain engaged he cannot be thinking about misbehaving or getting his way. This works for any misbehavior or any reason for it anytime anywhere and can be done mounted or on the ground. When your horse becomes calm and focused on the task, walk on towards your goal. As soon as you feel his focus even think about leaving your control you again put him to a task. Your first trip home from the neighbors may take you 3 or 4 hrs... but it is training well spent. If you are consistant every time your horse will LOVE walking calmly home without all that work. (you probably want to start this practice close to home in small increments. You may want to just go up your driveway a few feet then try walking back towards the barn, extend your distance looking for places and times to put your new training into practice. (Make sure when you walk off from your task that you do so with a slack rein, as this is the feel your horse is looking for and will appreciate and seek) Another tip: As a general rule here on our farm we never go straight home or straight to the barn after riding. It is common for horses to get excited goin home. We have lots of children and beginning riders and this easily can become a dangerous trait with a horse having total control. When we get to our road... we pass it, or ask for a haunch turn or anything before we turn and go up our driveway. We stop and ask things on the way, sometimes we turn around just before the barn and go back out the road. Then we go to the arena and work for another 5 minutes before dismounting. This habit goes a long ways to keeping the horses mindful we are still in control and keeps them calmer. We also go a step further and NEVER walk thru an open gate without first a solid whoa with a count to 3 and moving forward only when we ask. Hope this helps... be safe.. don't forget to let your horse know when he's getting it right. Don't look for things he'll screw up.. instead focus on him doing the right thing and he will seek it out. PS, disclaimer to anyone reading: If your horse suddenly develops issues where he's had none before, PLEASE make certain he is not suffering from hidden pain before 'training' it out of him. Almost all horses that develop sudden bad habits or will no longer perform a maneuver they once did well is dealing with a pain issue. At those times your vet, chiropractor, dentist, farrier, energy worker etc is the best training money can buy.

good idea! i don't have a roundpen where i live but i do have a side lot away from the other horses. i believe i'll take him out there right now and just sit for a while. thanks for the help!

If he's herdbound, then it's time to adjust his thinking. it's time to introduce him to his new herd-mate...you. Leaving him tied to the trailer might not be the best thing to do. In essence, though, you may be onto something. If possible, leave him in the roundpen all night, with plenty water and feed, then go sit with him tomorrow. With no work involved. It may take several lessons like this, but persevere, don't become discouraged. Let him tell you when it's working. Get a lawnchair and a good book, and just sit with him, let him get used to you being around him, without the punishment (work) he usually gets whenever he's taken from the rest of his herd. This sort of "work" will get him used to the idea that being around you can be fun, or at least, not what he's come to expect. Try to isolate him from the rest of his 4-legged herd, but without the preassure to perform. Let him learn to enjoy your company, as much as you enjoy his. This is how I wean my foals, a sort of sensory depravation. They are used to getting their comfort from Mama, or other horses, but, since the herd instinct is strong in them, use it to your advantage. Just a thought.....